and until you have certainty, i think you'll have what feels like a very flat environment. >> i hesitate to call it the new normal other than i do believe is that a new nbc show that i could plug quickly? isn't it a new -- hell of a show. and it allowed -- helped us win the sweeps. >> do you watch "mad men"? >> i haven't yet. is that based on you? you're much better looking and that guy. >> joe, if i was better looking than jon hamm, i'd be in your seat. >> very subjective. and to me, you are. >> that's why we have this mutual admiration society. but it is an unbelievably good show and sort of a reflection of what advertising was like in the 60s and 70s. >> but it also is a reflection of how we -- the shows that i am absolutely addicted to, i watch when i want. boardwalk empire or homeland or -- >> if you watch the newsroom or suits, they are great. those two are superb. >> and that's what worries me because these are nudity and language and all that, and i'm wonder can go a network compete. but maybe this revolution is -- i grot ot to check it out. >> one of the things we talked about l